Become The BEST In The USA In High School Education!

[Vic Spencer]

US Students Are Falling Behind In Science And Math: Bleak Future For Our Children.
WE CAN CHANGE THAT!
10/18/08 update.

For details, facts, go to www.knoxedu.info

Things may come to those who wait...but only the things left by those who hustle.” (Abraham Lincoln)

WHAT ARE WE WAITING FOR?

Scholastic achievement in our high schools has been falling for close to four decades (see the statistics below). As a result, we experienced a big drop in science and engineering graduates, especially at the MS and PhD levels. These in turn are the most important degrees in maintaining our economic health. MS and PhD level scientists and engineers do all the important research and development for USA products, to make them more innovative and less expensive, and for vital scientific work for our country.

This situation resulted in a gradual reduction of many American products that we all saw and see (cars, engines, steel, electronics, PC's, heavy machinery, and so on). We used to, but we no longer create the best products in many of these important fields. That in turn increased our imports (Americans buying foreign products like Japanese cars) and reduced our exports (foreign countries buying American products). The total dollars we paid/pay for foreign products has been much more than what we get for USA products that foreign countries buy. That created/creates what we call "our negative balance of payments", increasing "our national debt", and that in turn creates the "falling value of the US dollar" to this day. That makes foreign products, commodities like imported oil, more expensive.

Just imagine if you spent a lot more money for many years, decades, than what you made. For us that is impossible. We could borrow only so much. On the other hand the government can print more money, that is devalued. That is what is happening to us as a country, and one of the biggest reasons is us not graduating enough scientists and engineers to make superior products quickly enough to meet the demend of our own American customers.

This situation is an emergency, and it must be reversed.
HOW CAN WE SOLVE THIS TERRIBLE SITUATION?
How could we motivate the students? There are two important communication paths to them.
1. Teachers need to organize 30-45 minute weekly discussion periods with all students, one topic at a time, from grade one to twelve to make sure that all children develop a solid understanding of why studying, high school graduation with additional science and math courses, and an education beyond high school is vital, and all the exciting and high paying jobs that are out there just waiting for such well educated children. The school is the only place where such messages can be delivered and discussed with ALL children so that they will get excited about what they could become if they work hard in school. Major discussion classes could be:

• The long-term decline of US secondary education and resulting national problems (for the adult presentations below)
• What education is (training of the mind, like an athlete has to train his/her muscles)
• Why education is important (future income, quality of life depends on it)
• Why HS diploma is absolutely vital (one cannot get good jobs without it)
• The exciting jobs that await the kids after a university education (this is worth many discussions)
• Free possibilities for education, any university (with very high scores. I know two boys who had a totally free ride at Harvard) and the military options.

Could Dr. McIntyre and KCS initiate this program urgently please? Our students' future literally depends on it. Will Dr. McIntyre and KCS do so? We hope that they will. There are not too many opportunities that cost so little, and yet have such far reaching impact.

2. Parents and the general public need to be informed about the above facts as well. They need to be told up front, what happened to our secondary education system, a national problem we are facing and a local problem as well. The current high school graduates insufficiently trained in math, science and English are no longer suitable to take on a job at many of our local companies who used to be able to hire high school graduates before.

There are parents who do not understand the need for education. The Knoxville Chamber of Commerce (Jennifer E.) is working on a presentation to the public covering this area. This is also very important although we will not reach as many students through the parents as the first method above. However, it is also vital to get as much parental support as we can for this effort, and this is the best method that could achieve that with the right message.


PARENTS AND TEACHERS! SOMEHOW WE ALL HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO CHILDREN THAT THEY HAVE ONLY TWO CHOICES.

• THEY CAN WORK HARD FOR 10-12 YEARS IN SCHOOL (THE PARENTS AND TEACHERS HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY TAKE ALL THE ABOVE MENTIONED MATH, SCIENCE AND ENGLISH COMP. COURSES), PLUS MAYBE 4-8 MORE YEARS IF THEY WANT TO GO TO COLLEGE (FREE IF THEY HAVE EXCELLENT GRADES IN HIGH SCHOOL), AND THEN HAVE A GREAT 50-60 YEARS IN A WELL-PAYING FABULOUS JOB, MAKING PERHAPS 2-4 TIMES MORE, THAN MANY OF THEIR PARENTS.
  
  
• OR ... THEY CAN DECIDE NOT TO WORK HARD IN SCHOOL BUT HAVE MORE FUN, BARELY GRADUATE FROM HIGH SCHOOL, AND HAVE A REALLY HARD LIFE FOR 50-60 YEARS DOING MANUAL LABOR, HAVE VERY LITTLE MONEY, OR DEPEND ON THEIR PARENTS TO SUPPORT THEM FINANCIALLY UNTIL THE PARENTS DIE, MAKING THEIR OWN AND THEIR PARENTS LIFE VERY DIFFICULT. AND THEN PERHAPS BE HOMELESS. THIS IS NOT AN UNLIKELY STORY WITH OUR SLIDING EDUCATION AND ECONOMY.
  
  Those are the two fundamental choices that all school children are facing. Make sure that they know it.

INTRODUCTION: WHAT IS EDUCATION?

(Please click on it to read it. Most people have the wrong impression.)

Click here to see our USA standing in the world:
In math achievement (34th!) or in science achievement (29th!). Source: US Dept of Education, OECD PISA results.

Click here to see Tennessee's ACT standing (38th!) in the USA:
Science and math composite (38th!)

Click here to see our ACT trend in Tennessee:
Five year ACT trend
College/university readiness trend
College/university readiness demographically

Click here to see our ACT standing in Knox County, Tennessee:
By high school
Graduation rate by high school

Let me see if I understand this "picture". USA high school results are 29th-34th in the world. Tennessee average is 38th in the USA. How much is being spent per student for these results?Internationally (USA is 4th) and within the USA (TN is 44th!!)

Picture this again...We are the 4th biggest education spenders in the world (BUT Tennessee is 44th in spending in the USA), and we deliver the 34th in high school results internationally? What are we doing?? Something is very wrong with this picture.

Our competitor countries' curricula include Algebra 2, Solid and Plane Geometry, Trigonometry, Calculus 1, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Geography, local language composition -- all of them. Algebra 1 and some Geometry is shifted to 8th grade. That is what we used to have in the USA, without using calculators. The use of calculators seriously diminishes the mental training of students. If our high school students take and finish all the above courses with an A or B, they will succeed. Although they are not part of the curriculum for a high school diploma, these courses are offered at every high school.

I am sorry, but some of us parents are a big problem.

• Most parents' and high schools' expectations of our high school students have never been lower.
• We have permitted too much under performance for too long. Who loses? Our children, and OUR COUNTRY.
• Kids having more fun has become important at home at an expense to studying time.
• Most parents take the child's side if the child has an academic or discipline problem in school.
• Most parents and school children have no respect for teachers, yet everyone's future depends on them. Very foolish.
• We do not seem to value the importance of a degree in engineering or sciences. Yet this is what leads to much more income and jobs that are more exciting.

NOTE A CONTRAST IN THE COUNTRIES WITH WHICH WE COMPETE:

• Professors and teachers are the most respected professions in the top thirty countries, followed by medical doctors.
• Parents support the teachers without question because they know that their child's future depends on them.
• Disrespectful behavior toward professors or teachers is not tolerated and it results in expulsion from the school.

WE ALL HAVE SOME URGENT WORK TO DO TO CORRECT THESE PROBLEMS IN OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM.

[granma2]

Thanks for the reference. Japan spends fewer hours in direct instruction of younger children than many countries, but apparently they're doing a bang-up job while they're instructing because on levels of math expertise, they kicked every other country's butt -- especially the U.S. At the very highest level of assessment (this is for 4th graders incidentally) Japan had 21% reach that level and the U.S. 7%. Also, the time spent was an article about 13 year olds so it would be inappropriate to compare them to our high school students in amount of time spent in class, especially since they spend 220 days in school to our 180. Cudos for your friends trip to China, but that's considered "hearsay" and not reliable. You've been in Chinese schools? What were they like?

[Vic Spencer]

What is the value of graduating 100% by lowering the requirements such that 100% can graduate? We have been doing exactly that, but still manage to graduate only 75%, when most other countries graduate 90%+ and a handful graduate 100%. Momto3, where on earth did you find that we graduate 100%? We do not. Our record of how many we graduate is one of the worst. Look at the facts and their backup references at knoxedu.info please. And everyone, if you disagree with anything, please at least google it and find out what the facts are and include it here for all of us.

This discussion is not about making up unsubstantiated info to make us look good. It is about recognizing where we are, and then doing something to make us, hopefully what we used to be, among the top 5 countries in high school education some 40 yrs ago.
China decides at age 14 where the child is going to go for schooling and what field they will persue? Please provide some reference for this from a creditable source on the Internet. This claim is not true. The Chinese are not stupid. They also know that you cannot do any measurement at age 14 to predict a child's fit in adult life. You do it after age 17, when preferences are set for life in any child, anywhere. What is true is that in China, most high schools operate like boarding schools, making the kids study in the evening as well. I wish ours did that. But there are no night shifts in education that I picked up on.

Could you please give us a reference also for the hours students study math in Japan and the USA. And I would not downplay the Japanese. They have been beating us about as long as we have been watering down our education system. The Japanese school system is much tougher than ours, primary through high school. We need to make an effort to become as good as they are, and even better.

We are 25th-34th in the world with our high school education system, and Tennessee is 41st in the USA, and you are of the opinion that we should pick out the best schools in the USA and learn from them. Well, Finland, Canada, Hong Kong, Singapore are on top Internationally. Alberta, Canada's school system is number 2 in the world. I would suggest that we study and learn how the best are doing it worldwide, not just the best in the USA. Wouldn't that make more sense? We are competing internationally now, and our problem is that other countries' products are beating ours, resulting in a negative balance of payments. THAT is a huge problem that WE must resolve.

It's not enough to label Japan to have the highest teen suicide rate, which I believe they have. You are right. The Japanese from many hundreds of years back have enormous pressure on children to do very well in school. And it is a culture where it is very important what others think of you. Although the numbers are small, I would not advocate that much pressure. On the other side of the scale, we are much more relaxed about how our kids do than parents do in many other countries. We also have far too low expectations of our kids. And that has not been helpful to our kids and to our country. If you want to emulate anyone, Alberta, Canada, Finland, Singapore, Hong Kong would be the best choices in my opinion. Not Japan for the problem that you raised.

I agree that we should raise our children. But some parents are not doing so well it seems and some single parent neighborhoods are doing an outright awful job with their kids. I think such parents need some help, but the school with its limited hours cannot provide all that. And I would like us to spend some money if we have it to get the right help for such parents. But use professional people who know how to do that. And there has to be a point somewhere, when we can say without feeling guilty that Lord, we have tried everything, we spent a lot of money and this child is just not able to do school work, instead of just keeping the pouring of the money to keep trying. And I am sorry to say, many parents of such children seem not care at all. So, at the risk of sounding like a really bad person, there has to be some end to spending money without good results, unless we all are willing to double our relatively low county taxes. I would be willing to do that, but I would not want it to be spent where it does no good. I would like to spend it for graduating more high school students who get an avg ACT above 25 (36 is max, so 25 is not so outrageously high). In other words, spend some extra money for those who do the work. I would also say that spend the "average amount" for students who do not do the work. I believe that we are spending the most money there with better student-teacher ratios. I would love to get some facts to see if that huge investment is producing better results or not. This is just my opinion, and I would not be the only decision maker folks.

[Debi]

I don't think we are lowering our standards that much. I have known several teens the last few years who ended up with severe cases of senioritis and ended up 1/2 credit short of a diploma. When I graduated in 1989 if this happened we went to summer school or back in the fall and graduated 1 yr later. These kids are being told too bad and that they cannot come back at 18 years of age. I question first whether this is legal and second the wisdom. Why would we want all these high-school drop outs running around because of 1/2 credit short. Yeah, they shouldn't have fiddle-farted around, but they and their parents are tax-payers, they have a right to attend. I wonder if this would hold in a court of law if ever challenged.

The other thing we need to do is change the special education diploma. If you have an otherwise bright child who has, say, dyslexia and cannot pass some part of some standardized test there are no alternatives. Many of the special ed students are capable of going to college and becoming engineers, scientists, etc. If Stephen Hawking were in KCS, chances are he would have a sped diploma. If Albert Einstein were in KCS right now, chances are he would graduate with a sped diploma. They are considered worthless by most prospective employers, trade schools, as well as colleges.

If I can figure out how to do complex mathematical calculations of the thrust required to launch a rocket into space but cannot find the primary and secondary points of a paragraph that someone else deemed important, I cannot get a general ed diploma. My eight year-old daughter with autism, unknown to us, set up a computer's operating system my husband was building with each grade level of elementary school listed for the various usernames. She can tell you every name of every color of the 64 crayola crayons, spell them perfectly, type them perfectly on the computer, and tell you their order in the crayola box. Yet she is considered below average academically.

I would argue the 60% who are graduating, and many of those barely, are largely not the ones who can create thermodynamics theories, they are the average joes who figured out how to b.s. their way. The truly specialized students, who have profoundly expert areas of interest, they are the one dropping out and getting sped diplomas.

[granma2]

Debi,
You are absolutely right that the seniors who, your quote, "fiddle-farted" around shouldn't graduate. But, and I am absolutely right about this, they ARE allowed to go to summer school or return to school the next school year as long as they were NOT a discipline problem while they were enrolled. Summer school is an option even if they were discipline problems, so is Center School, Adult Education, or GED. I think they're pulling the wool over your eyes about being a half credit short. It was probably much more. They could go back for e-learning...lots of opportunities to graduate, but one has to persevere.

Special education diplomas need to be harder to get. They are not rigorous enough now. And children with dyslexia can graduate with a regular ed diploma. My son-in-law has dyslexia. He also has a Master's Degree that he earned through perseverence, hard work, and sheer will. Maybe the children you know need to work a little harder.

[Debi]

I don't know many students who are receiving sped diplomas, only their parents. I know the typical high schoolers are not pulling my leg because I've seen their grades and their parents are the ones who told me they were told by the principals the students were not allowed back. Now perhaps they did not fully investigate the alternatives, but again, I ask the question if it serves our community to refuse to permit a student to return or mark them off as a drop-out? As a taxpayer, I have no problem with them returning, I would suggest the majority of our taxpayers would not, either.

Perseverance is about keeping up even when you fail, such as returning after failing to earn all of one's credits; refusing readmission teaches failure.

[Debi]

One other thing, too. Because your family member was able to earn a regular ed diploma does not equate to other special education students not trying hard enough, they also have to have the early groundwork laid to allow them success. If they are only taught to sort & group animals & colors for the first six years of their academic career, we cannot possibly expect them to have the foundation to achieve in middle & high school. If they are not being given the tools to function in the early years, we cannot expect them to be successful in later years.

[granma2]

I can assure you they were not refused readmission if they were model students. If they were trouble makers, chronically tardy or absent I'm sure the principal thought they could do better in another setting. That would include adult education since they are now over 18.

[momto3]

I never said we graduate 100% of our kids but we do live in the only country (well, I don't know what European countries "laws" are, obviously, smaller, less populated countries could manage to educate every child) that strives to educate every child in the country, in fact, parents get into to trouble with the government if they don't get their kids to school.
India and China are not striving to educate 100% of their children to have a high school degree.

Again, while my reference for China is a friend who travelled there and spent time in the schools, I believe it. She was in one school during the night time shift, and the "officials" taking them on the tour were very proud of their accomplishments within this school. Unfortunately, it will not measure up to your standards for accuracy, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

I would say you have a lot of interesting statistics and I agree with a lot that you have to say. But I lived in India and it is so full of horrific problems regarding the abuse of it's children that I don't believe educating them is the first priority, survival is. Clearly, families that are wealthy send their children to school and they may well receive a great education. But the government needs to deal with the horrific abuse the disadvantaged, disposed of children (of which there are far more than any other kind) find themselves thrown into (too grotesque to discuss here) before I will believe they are putting children first and follow their educational model.

And I have problems modeling anything after a communist country whose abuse of it's peoples' freedoms is legend. I just would rather follow states of the US that have great education systems and if your preference is to keep your models out of the US, some of the European countries would work for me.

Perhaps, I'm too idealistic, but I have seen too many horrors (and, yes, I know they exist here too) to want to celebrate how "great" India and China are at educating their children. They are too many of "their" children that a forgotten and worse for me to embrace it.

[Vic Spencer]

momto3, you are right. You said this: "Countries like China and India are not graduating 100% of their population of children, they don't even attempt to educate 100% of their population. The USA attempts to give EVERY child an education (whether they want it or not).". I thought that you meant to say "We graduate a higher percentage than they do". I assumed and that's not a good thing.

We graduate 75%, one of the lowest in the world, and we do it with a much easier curriculum than any of the top 20 countries. Let me repeat again, we are 25th-34th in the world, and TN is 41st in the USA. That makes the TN requirement for a HS diploma awful.

I hope that you and everyone is getting the seriousness and urgency of this situation. If we continue this way, your grandchildren will be able to do close to minimum wage jobs only. I don't understand you. Is this what a parent wants? I hope not.

We are not competing that much with US domestic firms. We are competing with, and even more importantly losing to international firms. Can't you see your logic about wanting to study the best US performers in order to improve our system in TN? THAT defies logic if you are 25th-34th in the world. How many times do we have to hammer this fact home for people to see the light. I am sorry, I am just getting too revved up about this deplorable situation about education.

I am not advocating to use India or China as the target model. PLEASE, just believe me that I am not using these two countries for some obvious reasons. I hope that you are understanding what I am saying. The exception is Hong Kong, now part of China, has an outstanding school system. Finland, Alberta, Canada, Singapore (especially for primary, elementary education) would make excellent models.

For the last time, I am trying to communicate where we are in high school education. I am not mixing "inhuman", communist or any other behavior into this picture. Only the level of education on international standard scores.

Yes, you are too idealistic. Do we have so much money that we can just keep paying for social programs, supply more teachers in a disadvantaged area forever, when it does not produce better results? WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to keep doing that!!!! WE ARE 25th-34th!!! WE NEED TO PROVIDE MORE MONEY to those who could and are willing to work for better grades and go to great universities.

Please don't misunderstand me every time. We could do more, if we doubled our Knox County taxes with the proceeds going to education only. As I said before, I WOULD VOTE FOR THAT.

But we cannot be a bunch of morons and keep throwing money year after year into areas that just do not produce results after 2-3 years. I would vote for trying to do that for 2-3 years. But not beyond that. To go beyond that seems like an insane move by people who just do not get the dangerous situation we are in.

[momto3]

Question, what do the model countries (Hong Kong, Singapore, Canada, Finland and Alberta) spend per child? I'm just curious, because clearly in the US the amount spent per child does not directly correlate with a better education. It's been awhile since I looked at the numbers but in TN it's around $6000 a student (maybe a bit more) and in Washington DC it's about $14,000 (that may be a bit higher than actual number) per student, but neither system is providing a great education for their student populations. There are states in the Northeast that have very good systems and spend somewhere between what TN and DC spend.

I only ask because I'm not ready to be taxed so that the Knox County school system can have more money when they aren't good stewards of the amount they already get. I think the administration is top heavy and there are a lot of areas that could be streamlined without negatively impacting teachers or students.

Forgive me if I've misunderstood your position. Perhaps your suggesting that more money is needed but that money should be allocated for students that are performing really well and to help them with continuing their education? Not just increase taxes and give more money to the system for them to arbitrarily decide where to use it? I would support the former not the later. I just want to see that the $350,000,000 (or whatever it is) that Knox County schools get is spent in a way that maximizes the value of education our students receive and nothing else.

I would just be curious to know your position on the amount of money that is provided to the Knox County school system in comparison to say Singapore's school system (or any of the models) and how they match up. I just don't have any idea what the numbers are and would be interested to see the comparison.

[Ginevra]

I went to take a look at the TIMSS document, but it's large and I ran out of time to look for (1) time spent in the classroom and (2) money spent per child.

http://timss.bc.edu/timss2003.html

That information would be useful to consider, if anyone can locate those tables in the document and speed up the search.

[Vic Spencer]

Ginevra, this is a great site for grades 1-8. They focus on 4 and 8. It would be wonderful if they did this annually not every 4-6 years.


My focus is on grade 9-12, because the high school performance presents the biggest problem.

You get a gold star my friend for finding an otherwise great link!!


Vic