More Knox County schools could have their own dress codes next year

[Lola Alapo]

After the success of dress standards at two Knox County high schools, about 20 other schools are thinking about implementing their own.
They're careful not to call them uniforms.

See the story at http://knoxnews.com/news/2009/jan/21/20-more-knox-schools-interested/

What do you think about schools having their own dress standards? How do you think this will impact students? parents' wallets?

Lola Alapo
K-12 Education Reporter
Knoxville News Sentinel

[Cathy McCaughan]

An e-mail from Bearden Middle:

Bearden Middle School has followed Dr. Mc Intyre's "procedures for schools seeking to implement school-specific student dress standards for 2009-2010", but in order to move forward from this point we must have achieved a significant majority (60%) of positive responses of a second survey. As the surveys are returning to school, we can see that this 60% is unlikely to occur. I have discussed this with Dr. Alves, the middle school director, and she and I feel that the Bearden Middle School community will be better served by tabling the pursuit of a professional dress attire for next year. In light of this and after a significant investment of time, Bearden Middle School will discontinue the process of implementing a professional dress attire for the 2009-2010 school year, but will revisit this at a later date. The Bearden Middle School faculty, staff, and many members of the community still this believe there is merit in pursuing this objective.

Heather Karnes

[Bob Hunter]

So do we keep taking surveys until we get the result one group wants? Obviously it is not what most want and there is a very good reason - it does not work! And how can each school set it's own guidelines anyway- there ought to be one policy for all of Knox county period. God forbid a family has to move into another school zone and completely replace their children's wardrobe because it is the wrong color. And if you believe it equals the playing field for lower income children you are mistaken - the kids know where the uniform clothing comes from as well. I have been through this - it cost me more per year to clothe my children and it had no positve impact on their education. Let's focus on fixing the education system not our children's appearance. I do not need someone else telling me how my child needs to dress as long as it is decent.

[Cathy McCaughan]

Bob - We are in our 8th year at BMS. Every few years, the principal asks for uniforms and we go through this survey routine. At the beginning of every school year, the Open House for students and parents begins with the same speech from the principal. It does not include what the school's strengths or weaknesses are, it states that students must have natural colored hair and the only piercings allowed are girls' ears. I don't care if the students have polka dot hair and wear hoop earrings in their nose that makes them look like farm animals. I care about the student being driven home because he showed up at school with the younger sibling he was responsible for watching while his parent(s) worked. I care about the students who go home to an empty house and have nobody to help them with their homework.

It is not a secret that a lot of families send their children to private school at the end of 5th grade to avoid BMS. Putting the students at BMS in uniforms will not make the school Webb. Ironically, those students and their involved parents are exactly what BMS needs. I love BMS. With a few exceptions, the teachers there are dreamers. The good kind of dreamers who know that every child matters and believe that they can be reached. The vice-principal who has always been over my children is stern, bluntly honest and clever. When my middle child did something incredibly stupid to show off in front of his peers, the principal called to tell me that there would be a one-day suspension. I asked for a punishment that fit the crime instead of a day off from school. The punishment was changed to hours of table scrubbing and my son will never again "see how far" he can spit off a balcony. I wish the school could put the strength and energy that they have spent trying to get uniforms on adding after-school programs, tutoring and things that matter. Instead of worrying about what the students are wearing, we need to worry about what they are doing.

Apparently, this argument is going to be put before the school board. From another e-mail - "Some parents are going to the school board meeting tomorrow night to voice their opinion about the proposed policy. I know that Susan Bacon will be there to express her opinion about individual schools ability to decide policy vs. a county wide consistent policy."

[Bob Hunter]

Sounds to me like someone needs to explain the priorities of the education system to the principle - to focus on appearance and not what the school has to offer creates a very negative impression for students and parents alike. I have attended board meetings in a middle Tennessee county where this was the topic of discussion and it became so heated that they had to have deputies attend the meetings to keep order. In spite of a majority protest and ample evidence disputing their "findings of the benefits of uniforms" they implemented them. It cost is $600 the first year for new wardrobes and we moved a year later. Pulling up to any of the schools had the feeling of Comminist China not the USA. I sincerly hope we don't go there!

[April]

I have mixed feelings about this issue. I can see some parents point of view with the children get taunted for not having the name brand stuff and kids wearing trashy stuff to school. On the other hand I say kids are going to face some kind of obstacle with other kids in school at some point. There are always going to be children who were not raised with morals and respect, there are adults that way. Also if they would place a dress code in schools like they supposedly have right now and actually enforce it, then you wouldn't have the problems with the way kids dress at school. There should be a rule about the way you dress for school and if a child doesn't follow it, there should be a consequence that is the same for everyone period. That is the problem with America, they make rules but then depending on the situation, who you are, who you know,etc depends on if you get the proper punishment for breaking the rules. So in closing I can see good and bad in the new "dress code" and will just adjust to whatever they decide and not gripe and grumble about it no matter what the outcome is.

[Cheri Howlett]

As I mentioned earlier, I don't see all the importance that is being placed on uniforms. We should be concentrating on academic performance or all the other school problems that we currenlty have. The uniforms are not a magic bullet that will make everything better and our children will learn more in school.

For instance, if your school votes for the uniform policy, you are still going to have the ones who buy their blue pants and/or white shirt from American Eagle or Hollister versus Walmart, you are still going to have designer handbags, jewelry, etc. Are we suppose to limit those items, too? You are still going to have some people with poor hygiene skills. Unfortunately, students will still get made fun of regardless of what they are wearing. (big nose, big ears, too skinny, too fat, freckles, greasy hair, etc) Where do we draw the line? You are still going to have the ones with different morals and different backgrounds which can also alter learning? In life, there is always someone who is going to have it better or worse than you do. We need to focus on the real issues.

[Cathy McCaughan]

The West High School PTSO met this morning and there is going to be a parent meeting in the mini auditorium on Thursday evening at 6:00 regarding adopting a more academic appropriate dress code for the school year 2009-10. This meeting is to explain exactly what is being considered and have a question and answer session. Parents of rising 9th graders who will be attending West might be interested.

[Student]

Uniforms are dreadful ideas. When a school or district imposes something on a student, the student will rebel. Enforce a dress code, where shorts must be a certain length, shirts long enough to cover a girls stomach, but aside from that, there is no need for stricter monitoring. let students feel comfortable in school, and they are less likely to rebel.

[Vic Spencer]

We either have a problem with priorities or the Sentinel gave a strong message to its editors not to touch the significant underperformance that KCS has created for decades. Instead of worrying about uniforms and my teachers doesn't like me, we should worry a thousand times more about how the education outcome will rise significantly enough, like doing all that is necessary to increase the ACT by one point this year and another point next year. That is their job and they have not been delivering for a long time. It is costing us $370 million this year. The huge amounts of money keeps going up while the education keeps going down unless some higher agency of the government decides to increase the curriculum and improve testing quality. Why do we need the Board of Education and KCS Central? What are they accomplishing? It seems to be absolutely nothing about increasing the ACT and all that contributes to it. It would be nice for McIntyre to have a plan that makes good sense before the Board approves the hundreds of millions for him, a plan that clearly is a pathway to higher test results with a specific commitment. That is the highest priority by far, because our current high school grads are not job or college ready (82% of them!). We could forget about virtually all other topics, because such academic results are all inclusive, and without this single objective being met, only 18% of our high school graduates will be good enough to have other than unemployment and poverty in their future. We and the Sentinel editors should be screaming about this terrible situation! Instead we talk about this kind of low priority stuff that will simply not make one iota of difference a few years down the line.

Am I wrong? Am I worrying about something that will not happen? Lola, you and we all need to give this some very serious thought and take some even more serious action. If anyone disagrees, please let me know why. Please.

Especially you Jim McIntyre. Just be polite. It is about time that you answered some questions right here in public. We do not need any vague and glorious vision statements. We call those kind of statements BS in the long form in this part of the country. We want to see concrete commitments that we can measure, and results.

[Bob Hunter]

Vic,
This is a great distraction way of saying "we are doing something to improve education" without having to tackle the real problem - low expectations. Our kids are smarter than anyone wants to give them credit for and if we demand more and teach to that expectation they will respond. And a dress code does not make grades change - true educational focus does. I will make a bet though - if we focused really hard on the education end of it I would almost bet that appearances improve. It's a mental thing - when people feel their time is being wasted (as evidenced by several of Students comments) then their attitude about everything including appearance changes for the worse. When they are challenged and feel successful they tend to change their appearance to reflect that as well.
Unfortuantely it seems this dress code things gets shut down and then keeps coming back - like indigestion after a bad meal!

[Vic Spencer]

I agree Bob. Even in adults, the way they take care of themselves and dress reflects their psychological state, or depression. Since the Sentinel does not seem to be willing to address the most important topic with a good measure of emotion, I am beginning to wonder if someone is controlling them to divert attention from the real problem. This is not the way journalism is taught and practiced by the best, so I would really like to know who is jerking their purse strings. Frankly $370 million dollars annually, when there is no transparency at all, raises serious questions, especially at a time when the traditional newspaper business is sinking. I am becoming more and more of a believer that there is indeed something lurking in the woodpile, because it makes no sense otherwise. It is not possible for so many people to have no courage. Reporters could be told not to report about something or they will lose their job. Publishers are concerned in these times about advertisers going away. And on top of that, there is political pressure.

The right people with strong character who are good in their jobs, do the right thing. There are not too many of those around.

[Bob Hunter]

Vic,
I haven't read a newspaper in a long time and typically don't watch the news. I do look at news on-line but I take it with a grain of salt so to speak. I learned a long time ago that about the only thing I could believe in the paper was the funnies and if I really wanted to know something I had to research it myself and look at multiple sources - even then I am not sure I ever get to a full version of the truth. Unfortunately we live in a time when integrity, honesty and standing for what is right has little value unless it helps you make a buck or gets you to the next power level. I am not just bashing journalist here because it is prevalent in everything business and aspect of life I see.
I am getting ready to spend a week with teens painting houses for those who can't afford to take care of them on their own - it is a very long and tiring week but I have to say it is probably one of the most enjoyable times I have each year. Why - because I get to do something for someone with no hope of material return and I get to see a bunch of teens do it too and they love it. It is a better lesson than they can get in any classroom and it makes me forget the society I am so pessimistic about - I wish it was something I saw more on a daily basis because that type of attitude would help us fix a lot of the problems we are so frustrated with and discuss so often on this site.