My Meeting With Dr. McIntyre

[Vic Spencer]

I would first like to say that I am very thankful for having this meeting. He was very generous with his time. As I mentioned before, he accepted a job directing an organization with about 5500 employees, and a current annual expense budget of $360 million, representing about 80% of our tax dollars. I know that he was hired because the performance to date of KCS, and also the Board of Education, delivered only one of the worst academic results in the country - and our country unfortunately slid to 34th place in the world. We used to be leaders. As of this date, I have not seen any evidence of improvement. My focus is on the ACT scores, which are an excellent USA measure of scholastic achievement on the high school level. Without a doubt his situation is further complicated by an old organization that is dominated by its old habits. The education system in general has remained rather archaic, and I see no evidence of anybody being interested in studying how the world leaders have changed, not even the best Finland. The Chair person of the Board, Indya K has become interested in the second best organization which is Alberta, Canada. This is a good thing to see. But I found Dr. McIntyre unaware.

Just a quick review of our scholastic performance first:
OECD-PISA tests show the USA as 29th in science - 34th in math in the world.
See http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2008/2008016.pdf pages 6, 12 and others.
See also http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/15/13/39725224.pdf This one describes various international education systems in other successful countries.
Within the USA, Tennessee is 38th in ACT scores.
See http://www.act.org/news/data/07/states.html
The US Gov't mandated evaluations (NCLB) within each state are not always valid: see http://www.time.com/time/2007/nochild/
Tennessee: state math test: 87%, national math test: 21%
South Carolina: state math test: 23%, national math test: 30%
The TN test result based on which the report card is based that Dr. McIntyre praised, is nothing less than hoodwinking the public to believe that our children are doing B level work when they are actually failing miserably with a 21%.

I would like to add here that the US News & World Report, Best High Schools Report 2009, Tennessee has 2 Gold, 2 Silver and 25 Bronze rated High schools, none of them in Knox County (http://www.usnews.com/listings/directories/high-schools/index_html/... ). THIS is poor performance, that Dr. McIntyre must raise rapidly at least on the ACT level. He is new to the job, and he is not responsible yet for these results, but he will be responsible for 2009. The Board and KCS on the other hand can take a bow for allowing our children and grandchildren to be DUMBED DOWN for 80% of our hard earned taxes. I certainly would recommend no further tax increases for education until we see some evidence that this big old ship of education has been rejuvenated and is heading in the right direction.

Dr. MCIntyre does not feel comfortable with me discovering all these challenges we have in educating our kids. He told me that KCS knew all along the situation for years. I did ask him what they have done about it then, and he felt that they are properly addressing these issues every day. To me the evidence shows no such results being confirmed.

Dr. McIntyre feels and I agree that the public is totally unaware of this situation, and feels that all is fine. I wonder but did not say, why he was praising the Report Card then. I wonder and I did not say, why he does not stand up, as new to the organization, and tells the honest truth about where we stand educationally in Knox County. He is not responsible for it now, but pretty soon he will own the distinction of being part of the problem unless the ACT starts going up.

I mentioned to him that I would like to start talking to more inner city parents through their churches. He liked that idea, and requested that I just focus on that.

He agreed that the greatest influence can be made by the school systems on the children, because they are a captive audience in the schools for 6-7 hours. He also agreed that we can have less influence through parents where it was needed most, with low performance students whose single parents are too tired, do not know the subjects taught well enough, and they may not see their children long enough to influence them.

He mentioned his vision several times and asked me if I read it. I told honestly that it was a dream and I found not much that could be measured at year end to see if we have achieved something or not. He said his business plan coming out in May will do that. I asked if it will have any monthly or quarterly measurable goals, he said that it will have some annual measurable goals, which is not a comfortable situation for any business manager. And this school system does need to start responding with the precision of a good business. Even an ACT measurement must be preceded by school programs at every school, that could be measured weekly or certainly monthly because the students get graded in all sorts of subjects.

I am not comfortable with this situation. at all, as many of you are not comfortable. I sensed a good amount of discomfort on his side also, that I can really understand.

I would like to recommend to him to be more communicative and warmer to the public. Answer emails from the public with an autoresponder if nothing else. If Gov Bredesen can send a real response, answering questions, and so can Senator Corker and Rep. Duncan, then he should be able to do more than just ignoring emails and calls.

He feels that the public does not know the situation. I think it would be useful if he informed them through the Sentinel and if he participated in this blog that the public reads.

The bottom line is that we all want him to succeed in improving the school system, raising the ACT scores significantly each year, thereby making several of our high schools not just award winners in Tennessee but nationally as well. We deserve that, instead of the dumbing down of our children, for the huge expenses (80% of our County Taxes) that we are paying for KCS. Dr. McIntyre that is all we would like to see. We are not against KCS, WE ARE PAYING FOR KCS, but the old downward slide must stop NOW. and we must start "smarting up" all of our children at all schools with a program that is more rigorous than the new Tennessee curriculum. You must make sure and have high enough expectations of our children to know that THEY CAN DO IT. Their IQ is not lower than the kids' IQ in Finland and 32 other countries who are ahead of us. You all just have to motivate them better about what education really is and what absolutely exciting jobs it could lead to. We don't do either of those consistently yet.

Again I would exclude a few schools from my comments who have been doing a great job under great principals.

[Ginevra]

Thank you, Vic. This is actually progress, in that issues are actually beginning to be discussed!

[Vic Spencer]

Gin, I am not so sure. I am getting too many private emails and calls and would like to ask you all to put your questions up here for all to see.

I would like to address two important things that many of you brought up:

I was told several times by a few Board members that problems that I brought up on my Web site knoxedu.info, were known to the Board of Education for some time (years), and that I should bring up new things. If they knew about these problems for a long time, I wonder why we still have them and I wonder why someone from the Board or Dr. McIntyre himself does not inform the public of the dumbing down of our children for decades, and the hoodwinking with the TN math achievement test showing our educational programs producing a score of 87% (hmmm...nice!) but the national tests for exactly the same subject and same grade scores us at a 21% (this is not just failing, it is a disaster!).

"We must work together to solve this problem" says KCS, the Board and a few people. Need we remind KCS that we the public are paying 80% of our county taxes for the service that KCS is to provide to educate our children to internationally competitive levels - instead of dumbing them down. This has been going on for too many years, and it is time that after many billions of dollars paid in taxes for good quality, competitive education for our children, you actually delivered a weaker and weaker program, with state tests misrepresenting the actual education level of our children. Our schools and teachers did not do this. It was the state education department along with the school Boards and their central organizations. Not one person stood up to object against what was going on. So how do we work TOGETHER on this? Pay more taxes? Forget that idea until we see a complete turnaround in ACT scores, more transparency about how our money is being spent and what results we get for it, and listen more to teachers and principals without them having to be afraid about losing their jobs if they say the wrong thing. The currently existing system is simply too autocratic, and to date it has been delivering poor results. http://www.friedmanfoundation.org/friedman/newsroom/ShowNewsItem.do... . We need some drastic changes and much better results for our tax money, or go to a different system where the public can actually decide which school will get the money for their child's education. This monopoly is just not working, and it is just costing more and more, while delivering worse and worse results. Thank God there is some very serious dialog going on right now at the state level about how to change this antiquated system in order to produce better results. Vouchers, magnet schools, IB schools?

[Maxine Everett]

Vic, I get the feeling that you think all parents agree that we need to increase our standards. What I have seen on the elementary school level is that this is all well and good as long as their children still receive all "A's" on their report cards. I've been one of those teachers who has tried to push students, only to have parents rant and rave at me that little Johnny's "C" is not fair because I'm teaching the curriculum AND beyond. Many parents (not all) are not willing to let little Johnny struggle to learn more and more... they are more than content with the bare minimum so that Johnny remains a happy-go-lucky (but less educated) kid. It seems to be all about having a happy childhood. While I certainly wanted my children to have happy childhoods (and I think they did/do), I was more concerned about them learning the value of responsibility and hard work. Not all parents feel that way. You'd be amazed at how many parents of 5th graders don't have their children doing any chores at home. That's usually one of the questions I ask during parent conferences. The first time I heard it (about 20 years ago), I was amazed. Now I'm amazed if they DO have chores. Trust me, many parents talk a good game when they say they want a better education... but few want to make their kids work at it.

[Ginevra]

Maxine, I tried to get my kids to help out at home, and also encouraged them to work after school (and during summer vacations) just as soon as they legally could.

Not to contradict you, but my experience was that opposition to students working came from school administrators (okay, and some other parents, a few who had bought into the school's line) who thought it would take away from academics.

In our family's situation, having the young people work outside the home was helpful. It encouraged learning to handle money, helped them to understand the concept of taxes vs. take-home pay, how to negotiate and communicate effectively with an employer and with coworkers, etc.

At some point around (1950?), opposition to children working became official with child labor laws that cut down on work opportunities. My mom told me that in the late 1940s, school would let out for harvesting weeks in the springtime, to allow children to work at strawberry picking. Fresh-picked strawberries would be put onto trains early in the morning, which took them north for sale. It was a way for a child to supplement a family's income (families were much larger in those days), and there was a good strawberry-farm industry in this area (probably the origin of the name "Strawberry Plains"?)

I am not trying to attack your point that some parents discourage their children from working hard. I know of some cases where this is true. However, I also know of situations where schools have encouraged inappropriate assignments which interfere with students helping out at home or holding down jobs outside.

School systems need to work together with families to encourage practical, sensible behavior in every area. If teachers don't want to be "blamed", it will help to avoid trying to push off every responsibility for failure as "lousy parenting". Sometimes the school system has also failed to deliver practical foundation skills within a logical structure.

[Knox County Teacher]

I agree. A lot of teachers do push off responsibility to parents. Not to let them off the hook, all parents are responsible for their children and their views on education. However, I am really tired of hearing colleagues say students are not capable of something or it's too hard for them before they even try. Granted students are at different levels within the same classroom, but I am a firm believer in telling students they are capable, they can achieve a goal. I give a pep talk and review test taking skills before every quiz and test. At the beginning of every day we talk about doing our personal best so we are proud of ourselves. This does not mean all my students are exceeding grade level expectations, but I sure push them to strive for the next level. You don't know what any child can do until you challenge them, they are all individuals. As far as jobs, I think some students should only focus on studies if they do not need to financially contribute to their family and they are struggling in school. If you are successful in school, why not work on having more responsibilities and putting to use what you have learned in school in the "real" world?

[Debi]

My kids have -, =, and + next to some grades. The - means below grade level, = is on grade level, and + is above grade level. From my understanding, the letter grade is how the student is doing within the reference of the child's individual best. So if you have a student with modifications who may be working, say, 1 grade level below but is maintaining progress at a steady clip & performance, that child would have marks based of that grade of work.

In an individualized education it is supposed to be designed with programming such that the student is catching up if behind. I know not every student has guaranteed an individualize education, but the teacher is responsible for providing that to those students who are guaranteed such. We cannot both expect the teacher to accommodate this (per federal & state laws) while fussing at the teacher when she does grade based on federal law. Problem is KCS still expects cookie-cutter teaching & the teacher can either violate federal law or violate KCS standards. We need standards that make it possible for the teacher to excel in all areas he/she is required to do.

[granma2]

Debi - what do you mean by this? Problem is KCS still expects cookie-cutter teaching & the teacher can either violate federal law or violate KCS standards. We need standards that make it possible for the teacher to excel in all areas he/she is required to do.

[Vic Spencer]

In reading your comments, what I find interesting is that in Finland, the number one country in math and science primary or secondary school testing in the world, teachers have total freedom to decide even about the textbooks they want to use. The teachers have a group meeting weekly to discuss various issues, including any special ed situations they have identified, and decide on the spot what to do, where to transfer the child for best academic results. Teachers are well educated, have a masters in the subject they are to teach, plus two years of specialized teaching related university programs. It is the most respected position by the public. All top university grads regardless of their field of study volunteer first to become teachers, so they get the best minds into the program from the universities. This is one very interesting model. If interested Google "Department of Education Finland". The second best is the Alberta Department of Education in Canada. Indya on our Board of Ed is interested in this one thank God, but I don't know if anyone else, including Dr. McIntyre read about both of these outstanding systems. I believe that it would be very useful for us if all key people in our KCS system, including principals had a chance to learn about these systems and think about what methods could serve us well.

[Cathy McCaughan]

Okay, I volunteer to tour the schools in Finland. Maybe Haslam could sponsor a parent-teacher-school board rep collaboration trip there.

[Vic Spencer]

You would enjoy it too. Nice people. St Petersburg Russia is only a couple of hours by train too - for sightseeing. Russia's education system is pretty bad. You sell the idea to Haslam. Or, if your husband is not going, our county mayor would be willing to go.

McINtyre thinks as he reads this "There goes Vic again with inappropriate comments like at the Board meeting."

[Cathy McCaughan]

My brother taught in Vlad and St Pete to pay off his student loans. I've heard the stories.

[Debi]

I mean on the one hand teachers are expected to teach with pre-planned worksheets and curriculums without deviating so everyone gets the same thing -- cookie cutters. On the other hand, teachers have an obligation to follow individual education plans for those who have them per federal law. This requires individualized instruction for those students. It's a double standard for the teacher who many times doesn't know what he/she is permitted to do.