Report on the Urban Schools Forum at Fulton High 04-25-09

[Lisa Starbuck]

Just home from the urban schools forum. The great news is that there was standing room only! At least 500 attended, and I think closer to 600! To me, that aspect alone - that you could get 600 people to come to school on a Sat. morning to talk about improving schools - made it a big success.

I'm really impressed at the turnout, especially considering what I've seen at other school forums or presentations. On another thread, Cathy asked if anyone received robo-calls from the school. I wonder if robo-calls is what made the difference in turnout or if there was some other factor? In any event, whatever it was, it really worked. Hopefully School Matters, as well as the media coverage, had something to do with more people being aware and making the effort to come and participate.

Because so many more people came than they planned for attended today, they had to modify the agenda to accommodate everyone. So, there was a brief presentation by Dr. McIntyre on the vision and how it relates to urban schools, then school system folks did a presentation of the issues for urban schools. They presented data on all the schools in Knox County, ranked them on several criteria such as percent of economically disadvantaged students, student and teacher mobility, attendence, suspensions, ACT scores and graduation rates. All very helpful information, which they said they would post on the KCS web site. When they do, I'll post the link.

They rest of the program focused on what is going on now in the urban schools, mostly with regard to Project Grad, and touched on the University-assisted community schools program.

Then Dr. Mac took questions and comments from the audience. Whoo. They weren't too easy on him. I made a few notes about the Q&A session and between them and what I remember is listed below (not the exact words used, just the gist of the question and answer).

1. Q. How can we do the right thing for urban schools when the school system is increasing the student/teacher ration? Urban school teachers have to deal with more social issues in addition to the regular learning, but we are increasing the number of students each teacher has in the classroom. Heard there would be as many as 30 students in a classroom.

A. Dr. Mac said the ratio is 1:20 in most schools, and 1:18.5 or 19 in urban schools. He said the budget cuts required the teacher reduction, and that they had come up with a formula to be applied to all schools equally. The formula also takes into account the number of economically disadvantaged students and decreases the ratio accordingly.

2. Q: Why are you removing Vocational Education programs in urban schools?

A. This is difficult budget year and we have had to address cuts in many programs. However he is very supportive of Career and Tech Education and thinks it is important and has a team looking into planning and resource allocation for Voc Ed systemwide. He said they can't afford to have all programs at all schools because there is significant capital investment required for some of the programs, but that we should look at ways of grouping and maybe even bussing students to the programs instead of trying to bring every program to every school. He is working on a plan with others, hopes to have some more details soon.

3. Q. Urban schools need nurses but I've never seen one in my urban school. What do we have to do to get a nurse in my school? Urban schools really need this medical assistance.

A. Dr. Mac says he supports nurses in schools, not in the budget. They did have one nurse hire that was originally going to be an administrative nurse at central office, cut that funding, then put it back as a regular nurse going to one of the schools. Would like to have nurses in schools, don't have the budget.

4. Q. Why doesn't the school system encourage retired people to volunteer in urban schools? Having at least one caring adult in a child's life makes all the difference in the world. She was with Lion's Club in Ftn. City, said they are a bunch of retirees that have gotten involved recently with the kids, and it is has been very rewarding and very successful and she wants to see programs like that expanded and encouraged by the school system.

A. Dr. Mac thanked her for being involved. I don't remember the rest of what he said because I was saying goodbye to my very nice seatmate I just met.

5. Q. Too many urban schools have kids being suspended because the teacher's can't relate.

A. Dr. Mac reassigning people, hoping to get the right fit.

6. Q. Moving teachers around too much - why?

A. Trying to get the right fit. Also Knox County was one of 7 in country that got a DOE grant called Talent Transfer Initiative - encourages great teachers to stay or move into urban schools. Will soon find out if it works in Knox County.

7. Comment: Too many urban schools focused on behavior, not learning.

8. Q. Administrator and 10-year teacher from an urban school said the disruptive behavior of 2-3 children cheats the rest of the class out of learning. One of the biggest problems to solve in urban schools. Do we need more alternatives for disruptive kids?

A. Much of stimulus money going to Title I and Project Grad schools and hope to make some improvements there. Have to be careful in alternative programs, especially in elementary education, to make sure that children don't get labeled different or disruptive so early in their school career, when something may be going on in that child's life that is causing the behavior.

9. Q. What can we do to increase teacher pay when all the surrounding counties pay more? We can't keep good teachers, especially in urban schools - they have greater opportunities elsewhere.

A. Budget and see answer to Q. 6 above.

There was more discussion, but that's the main ones I remember. Also, none of the above were the exact words - just the gist of the question and answer.

They had a questionnaire with four questions that they passed out. The questions were 1. Is your child receiving an effective education in KCS? 2. Do the current student support services meet the needs of your child and family? 3. Is your school a Title I, a Project Grad or a full service school? 4. What is the best way to make information available to families?

I noticed none of my neighbors were filling them out, so I started asking them why and they said it was because they didn't have any kids in school. Some were teachers, some were senior citizens, two others were just community people, who like me, don't have any kids.

They passed around a sign-in sheet kind of as an afterthought it seemed, and it didn't ask for any contact info - just your name and organization or affiliation.

I think if I'd had access to 600 motivated people who wanted to talk about urban schools, I'd have had a different conversation and I would definitely have gotten their contact information.

Overall it was a great event. My only comment was that it was very parent-directed and not community-oriented.

[Amy Wright]

Dear Lisa:Thanks for all of the information. Very informative. Especially to those of us who were not able to attend.
I do get periodic calls from our school. I've also heard the same thing about social/discipline issues being a problem in the urban schools. Hopefully something can be worked out soon.Again thanks!

[Vic Spencer]

Thanks for this info Lisa. I was told by our Board of Ed chair person that Fulton is experimenting with longer school hours to improve academic achievement. That is the only avenue according to a number of research reports to improve inner city education. Was anything said about that?
Fulton does have an outstanding principal and very good teachers.

[Cathy McCaughan]

Fulton has longer classes or more classes/services in the school day?

[Vic Spencer]

Cathy, that detail I was not given. In research reports I read, even a supervised study hall creates better results, because it takes away any unsupervised time these kids may have in the afternoon in the street and they get home after the parents get home. In the tests I read about the kids would get home at 6 PM. That's 3 more teacher hours per day, so it is a substantial expense. My thought was that this is the way Fulton decided to trade off the extra expenses they are paid, and thought this to be a really great idea, if it happened. In the same reports it was shown that a better student-to-teacher ratio did not help as the last ten years have shown in our case. I was wondering if volunteers could help. I was on the way to volunteer for math and science with KCS, did my drug and criminal checks, had the orientation, but I would have been put on a substitute list, meaning I could get a call at 6:30 AM any day and would have to go. So I did not submit my final papers. If I could get something scheduled say for 3 hrs 4 days a week on a regular basis, I could do it.

Lisa, this was great reporting indeed.

If anyone is interested, I have an article now in the knoxfocus.com about the education system in Finland, who are the best according to the OECD reports. It is a very interesting system, and convinced me in several areas to change my thinking about this subject.

[Indya Kincannon]

Fulton instituted a longer school day this year; students are in school an extra 30 minutes every day. Teachers are paid more for this extra time with Title I monies. They use this 5th block for enrichment or recovery/tutoring, depending on student needs.

Thanks, Lisa, for reporting on the Urban Schools Forum. I was thrilled with the turnout (over 600 people) and encouraged by the comments. It's clear to me that people across the community care deeply about urban schools, are not satisfied with the status quo, and want to be part of the solution.

Some ideas that struck me as I listened to the forum:

- Many students come to school burdened with problems from home. Schools can mitigate some of those issues, but cannot replace the family. There were numerous comments about the importance of family and parent accountability.

- Schools need to help struggling kids, but not at the expense of kids who don't have behavior or academic problems. There are a lot of students who are not pushed to reach their full potential. We can't fix the achievement gap until we address the expectations gap.

- We need to do a better job aligning our resources. Some of our neediest schools have a lot of programs and resources and adults in the building. We need to make sure that one person, the principal, is truly in charge of every adult in the building and all staff members are working together coherently, collaboratively, and efficiently, whether it's Title I, Project GRAD, Special Ed, or regular ed staff.

- I'd like to try the KIPP model in one of our KCS schools. But the models and strategies are secondary to the quality and effectiveness of the people leading and teaching in the schools.

Indya

[Vic Spencer]

Very well said Indya on all your points.

It is unfortunate that we could try only a 30 minute school-day extension at Fulton. I would certainly be willing to pay more taxes as a citizen if we could keep working with those kids in the schools with poor results until their parents get home.

[Debi]

A lot of Fultonites have gone/do go to church where I attend. They may not have the scores to show off, but I can tell you people from that school think it's the greatest place in the world. I am married to a Fultonite, As a non-Fulton graduate I find myself scratching my head a lot at this elite Fulton club & have asked hubby why there is such pride with Fultonites considering the scores. His response is that considering what the staff is given to work with in regards to funding and student body, they have incredible results and students find it to be a refuge.

[Debi]

Wow, great reporting. I was there from 11-12:30 or so, had a prior engagement that kept me from getting there until then. I tried to speak, I was going to say the following:

Regarding nurses in schools, student nurses will not work at area locations because we are not permitted to perform any duties without a licensed RN/professor. Regarding a prior comment that 2-3 disruptive students ruin the entire classroom. I wanted to ask the audience how many of them have been told, "We cannot do anything, he/she is special ed?" That is a lie, there is plenty that can be done and KCS should not be saying this to parents as it is creating hostility toward special education students. KCS must offer community training and teaching on special education students. Finally, I would like to ask KCS to stop with the "Do it in 4 or lose it" mentality regarding general education diplomas, that we should permit those who may take 5 or even 6 years to do so.

[Vic Spencer]

Debbie, could you talk to your minister at church about me making a short presentation to Fulton parents and kids if they are there? I would like to turn on some kids and parents. I will do as many sessions as your minister wants, any where, any time, and be available for discussions private or group for as long as it is needed.
I will not talk about KCS problems. I want to talk about what education really does, why it is needed, what the job market is and how it will be evolving during their lives, and finally I would like to explain that happiness in a job is - not as impossible as many think. In fact that is where success lies. I just posted about this on SchoolMatters, but it would be useful I think if they have any questions in mind and I could answer them. I am quite good at group discussions like that, and I think I could help a lot of kids and parents. I would be very happy to do this, and I am actually very eager to do it with Fulton or Austin-East parents in a church environment especially. I tell you that I would not mind doing this 24 hrs/day straight. I could probably last for 2 maybe 3 days. It would make me happier than pig in mud if I could do many of these.

[Debi]

Vic, I will Facebook you the info for my pastor. Some of the Fulton people don't attend there any more, some still do. At the forum one of the speakers asked KCS to utilize churches in the A-E area for information, so you may be quite well received.

One of the things that I realized in attending the portion I was able to attend is that I personally don't have a clue regarding the culture & environment of urban families. I know that my kids attend one of the schools, but I'm just ignorant. One of the speakers commented about the "cradle to prison" pipeline he himself was in and so many others. For myself it seems foreign, for far to many young, capable men and some women it's far too real. I cannot comprehend the hows and whys it happens but as a human I would sure love to stop it.

[Vic Spencer]

Got your info, thanks. I have done some volunteer work in "that world" before so I have some understanding of what is happening. Unfortunately some drugs can create instant addition by creating changes in brain chemistry on first try. I have seen 7-8 yr old kids in ER who were overdosed with LSD impregnated Disney character skin patches. It is a very nasty world, but some brain chemistry imbalances can be restored with a year's dose of Prozac, a very old antidepressant. Pushers make big money tax free. That is the main problem. If a high school kid is a pusher and can make more than $100K profit without paying tax, prison may not be a great deterrent. We have to find a way to get the profit out of it for those who push it. That debate needs to be on a much higher pay grade level than mine.

[Ginevra]

Vic, there is a college level Economics 101 textbook that addresses the drug issue... by showing how legalizing drugs would cause the prices to drop drastically, thereby reducing participation in the sales effort (as happened with alcoholic beverages when Prohibition was lifted).

It was written by Robert Frank and Ben Bernanke (of the Fed).

Check it out on http://www.amazon.com (search for Principles of Microeconomics by Robert Frank and Ben Bernanke)

The problem is above my pay grade also, but we ought to have more informed discussion about these taboo subjects (economics as well as drugs)